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Page 1, Page 2 Content Since when does PR speak constitute evidence over actual numbers and financial statements? There's these things called quarterly reports, one of which was just released, and it shows just how poorly Wildstar is doing. Logic and numbers, how do they work? "Surge" of returning players, notsureifsrs? Even if 1,000 new players decided to subscribe this month, that's literally nothing. You supposedly see more people in the game, want to know why? The population is already so low, that it's extremely easy to notice an increase even when that increase is trivial. Want to know how I know the population is extremely low? The quarterly report. Please, PLEASE show me evidence of the current subscription model working? This isn't lala land, this is the real world. Wildstar made $5 million dollars last quarter. If you think that means the subscription model "is clearly working", then don't quit your day job. Lol@talking to me about economy, when you don't even base your position off of real financial data. No, sorry, you, as an individual consumer, have no weight despite your delusions of grandeur. If this game goes F2P, there will be plenty of people who will take your place. I have evidence to back up what I'm saying, while all you have are emotions and anecdotes. | |} ---- ---- Yes, posts like mine are why people don't play the game. It's definitely not the low population, terrible state of PvP or anything like that. It's totally due to some random peoples' posts on a general discussion forum. Games like SW:ToR, WoW and ESO have just as much vitriol on their forums, yet they don't have the same population problems. One has to wonder why? People want the game to go F2P for the game's sake. It will bring in a host of new people, both bad and good, and breathe new life into PvP and other areas. It's really not that complicated. There's no evidence to suggest that this game will see a significant resurgence in subscribers outside of an expansion release. A conversion to F2P/B2P, however, has shown time and time again that it can bring a game back to life. | |} ---- ---- ---- So your idea of alive and healthy is the most popular corner of the only populated city of the only populated server in the entire country being mildly crowded? | |} ---- ---- Ahahahaha I'm going to believe the words and actions of the people who are actually in charge of the game over the words of someone would-be player who just wants to see it go F2P. The fact that they continue to work to improve the game - changes that continue to bring people back - and have made no move whatsoever to deviate from their pay model is evidence plenty. | |} ---- ---- Thanks for proving my point. You're just coming off as delusional at this point. What else do you expect the people in charge of this game to say? Do you really think they're going to say that their game is doing poorly? No, I don't think so. Even if they're currently in the midst of changing their payment model, you're not going to hear about it until every single detail is ironed out, which takes a long time. Real world, welcome to it. It's the same group of people posting in this thread. If you haven't noticed, these forums move at a snail's pace nowadays. | |} ---- ---- ---- Interesting, seeing as how my queues ranged from anywhere between 7-25 minutes the other night during primetime. Edit: Dominion? If so, that would make more sense. Queues are much longer for Exiles. You're just making too much sense. Your kind are not wanted here. | |} ---- 10 people are playing a game. 10 more people are playing a game. That's a 100% increase in players!!!!! Without numbers of players every claim is almost invalidated. The subs from the reports are the only solid information we have unless carbine decide to release CONCURRENT user numbers, which they wont. Edit: This isn't trying to debunk what you have experience although I do find it a tad unlikely but people need to remove their rose tinted shades and try and not be so narrow minded, if you truly wanted the game to succeed then you would welcome any way to increase the user base with open arms but because of the stigma that goes with "Free 2 Play" caused most likely from horrible cash in games, any sensible attempt at free to play is given the same treatment. Heck league of legends is free to play and look how not pay to win and popular that is. People need to embrace new ideas instead of being so stubborn and entitled. | |} ---- ---- Think outside of the box for a second. If you released a game that made $25M in the first quarter and then dropped to $5M thereafter do you think Carbine would actually be allowed to comment negatively on that fact? Of course not. They have to remain positive for the sake of keeping things under control. If they came out and said "Hey guys, subs are way below what we need and things are not looking good" do you think people would still place their confidence in Carbine? No. I'm claiming the "numbers" are too low based on that I have been sat in Illium for almost an 45 mins in LFG with a 4/5 group in prime time for the daily vet adventure and have not had the que pop once. Back in November when I decided to take a break at least they were popping. This isn't me claiming that the game is dead like some are saying only that some of the vocal few who are so against a different game model really need to take a step back and realize how narrow minded they are being. We need what's best for the game, the players as well as Carbine and I don't think that balance is being achieved efficiently with the current model. Just another idea here too, Lets wait to see how number do a month from now? When people have experience Drop 4 and have made up their minds. I know quite a few people who have quit since before Drop 4 because they wanted to wait to see what it would bring without having to foot the bill of "when its ready". Next months population should give some indication of the retention rate and if Drop 4 was successful in bringing back some life to Nexus for the foreseeable future. | |} ---- They are too low. Carbine made $5 million over the course of last quarter. How much of that goes towards paying their employees, utilities, server upkeep, NCSoft and so on? How much do you think is left after that, if any? Tell me, do you think you would know if Carbine wasn't happy? No, you wouldn't. It's called PR, whose sole purpose is to spin anything, no matter how bad it is, into something positive. You're never going to see a Carbine employee admitting to unsatisfactory revenues on the record, even if they are, in fact, unsatisfactory. You're never going to see them talk to you with anything other than their game/happy face. It's their job, and they have everything to lose if they do otherwise. Carbine could, hypothetically, go bankrupt, and 1) you wouldn't even know about it til it was publicly released, and 2) Carbine would still do their best to make it seem like everything will be okay, everything will change for the better and so on. It doesn't matter how bad the state of this game becomes, until it shuts down, Carbine will do their best to make it seem like everything is fine and according to plan, because they have everything to gain by doing so. I recommend reading glassdoor's employee reviews about Carbine. Once you do so, I think you'll realize that all is not well. It will also explain how this game was so botched up until now. | |} ---- As someone who has been playing pvp since the game launched and seen two dead servers, experienced the queues all the way through the population decrease, this increase of people queuing (by the way you can tell it's more than 10 people each side queueing, when you get different people in each bg!) is phenominal. I never thought I'd be able to pvp again regularly again. I'm fine with f2p/b2p titles, I just don't think wildstar is in such a dire state everyone else is saying it is. I play plenty of f2p games, where it works great. But I don't think the f2p market will be good for wildstar, that's all. It's a very niche game. | |} ---- ---- ---- If all that you say is true, then good luck on them. They can be another F2P contender in the market and see how they do. But they'll be doing it without me. Sure, I'm just a (very small, insignificant) number to them. And they can replace me by destroying the core of what it is to make it happen. But I love this game and I tell people about it. I'm probably not alone. They can replace me with a different kind of customer, and maybe that kind of customer will be better for them. Maybe having people who will play and feed the paywalls is better than my two subs (one for me and my wife), even though we both talk the game up to others because we have so much fun playing. They can attract a whole different audience than the dedicated folks who love the game right now, and maybe it will be better for them because they'll have enough freeloaders to make up for those who were willing to invest in the game. But if that was the only way to be successful, they should have made *that* game. If all we're doing here is proving that a game like Wildstar can't exist, then it serves as a failed experiment and I can put all of this MMO nonsense behind me. Personally, I hope it doesn't come to that because I'm really enjoying the game. But if it's just not popular enough to continue, then I'll move on and do other things with my life. But I won't follow it to a F2P model unless that F2P model still has a sub that gives me everything they create and they keep cranking out the content I want to play. | |} ---- ---- Hope you're ready to get disappointed again! It's going to take some kind of drastic change to fix the game. It's pretty clear the current business model just isn't working. | |} ---- ---- We don't need some drastic change that all of a sudden its BOOM 2 million players! We just need to show growth. If the 1Q15 report shows growth from the last report, and the trend continues with each new drop, that will mean the business model is working. This game does not need WoW subscription numbers to survive and profit. | |} ---- 1st: a lot of people cannot play wildstar due to spec issues. not a lot of rigs can run it nicely. 2nd: the world graphics are okish if taken as a whole, but it still feels dated and most of all; disjointed, for most people. add to that that there is no voice over and that chat bubbles are popping up everywhere and over each others. it simply is not a nice game to look at and play for "rpg fans". 3th: content difficulty will eventually get your aunty and easily enraged friend out of wildstar. probably around the vet dungeons or early raids. 4th: subs... unfortunately, it does turn a lot of people off. | |} ---- Not sure what any of these points have to do with what I said. If 1Q15 shows a growth in revenue from Wildstar as compared to last quarter, and that trend continues. It proves that the game is growing and the model is working to a point. I am not sure what level of revenue needs to come in quarterly for a profit, but as long as the game is big enough for a profit, it will stick around. | |} ---- definitely. but the less people there is, the less goodies you'll get. | |} ---- If there's a growth in revenue, that would mean that more people said hello than goodbye, which is the important thing. The 10 day free trial is probably the best thing they could have paired with Vet Shiphands. It's easier for newer players who didn't do instances before to get into Vet Adventures. People really don't need their hand held through easy instances, they just need encouragement to jump into the deep end to prove they can swim. | |} ---- Agreed of course. As much as I would love having 2 million players or what not, I am okay with a steady growth to get there. As long as there is a steady growth, then I don't feel we need to blow up the business model. | |} ---- keeping 10days trials mostly a word of mouth thing was also very smart. its not the right time to get random casuals and your aunty into the game. | |} ---- More like not the time to get all the starving PVPers back into the game. At least for now, PVPers can tell the guys they know would balk at the current build to hang back and get the people who got what they needed to come back. I assume we'll see a lot more of those FFXIV:ARR style "Play For Free" advertisements that send people to a custom built trial page. They needed to make sure their game is in a good state all around though.... and that the free trials work. You just never know until it's out there for general use. | |} ---- makes 100% sense. along my line of thoughts. | |} ---- ---- On the Aurin faction side (Most populated faction) on the PvE server (Only populated server) | |} ---- I've also met quite a few people in the first 2 zones (don't know the name, satanic church city) on dominion side. | |} ---- >.> Ellevar <.< I am going to make sure to kill as many Aurins tonight in PBGs... EDIT: Aurin* is the plural form, my bad guys o/ I am going to make sure to kill as many Aurin tonight in PBGs... Edited February 23, 2015 by henzilla | |} ---- Dommie is pretty much the same, I go around low level zones every day recruiting for my guild and have got loads of new recruits, all brand new to the game who started with the 10day trial then decided to sub :) | |} ---- and I'm glad you're doing that I myself have found it exhausting as of late when I go to Ellevar or Deradune on my daily craft missions. I get a noobie asking me, "where is everyone?" "What's end game like?" "How do you like the game?" "Why do queues not pop?" "Is this faction dead?" "Any low level guilds recruiting?" So yes I have noticed the recent burst of new players but I'm just not sure as to how many will remain, and I know I know, it's only in my best interest to help out these players and help the game grow but I seriously can't have the same convo every time I go to Ellevar or Deradune >.> Ideally the game itself will be enough to grasp these players, but I still feel it is too late and the sub model will disappear soon. I am not a "F2P troll" I am simply looking at things from someone who has played since beta and fears the worst. | |} ---- ----